Saturday, February 23, 2013

This Will Make Leftists' Heads Explode

Coat of arms of Toronto
Coat of arms of Toronto (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
The city [Toronto] should neither help nor encourage these people to stay, argued Mr. Minnan-Wong, who asked city council to support the federal government’s approach to legal immigration, and endorse deporting people who are in the country illegally. 
“They are an insult to every immigrant who played by the rules to get into this country,” he said. “It sends a message to the world that it is OK to break the law to come to Canada, and it says that the city of Toronto is an accomplice to this lawbreaking.”
Cue exploding leftist heads.

Followed by this:
City council shot down Mr. Minnan-Wong’s request, and instead took steps designed to help people living in Toronto illegally without legal status feel more comfortable accessing city services.... City staff will report back later this year on ways to “improve access without fear”.
Is this what our society has come to -- making people who are here illegally "more comfortable"? What's next: making people who don't pay their Toronto municipal taxes "more comfortable" by assuming they have good reasons for not doing so?

The question is not, "is this a good idea?". The question is, "can a society that acts this way survive?".

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Anonymous said...

This coat of arms is very disappointing! I fail to see where the holy religion of Islam is represented. I fail to see where the great profit Muhammad (peace be upon him) is depicted is this coat of arms. Isn’t Canada supposed to be a multi cultural and multi ethnic nation? I see a reference to diversity but what kind of diversity; Christian White diversity?

Pissedoff said...

Well hopefully the society of TO won't survive and will implode with stupidity.

WTF said...

I can't even stand looking at Toronto on a map.

Alain said...

Immigration and by extension deporting illegals is a federal jurisdiction, so I expect Immigration to keep a vigilant search in the Toronto area for illegals and to deport them.

Thucydides said...

Are they hoping the Government of Ontario will bail them out when they can't pay for this stupidity?

Wow, City Council and Toronto voters in general seem to have left reality behind a long time ago...

RkBall said...

Alain -- The problem is his is not just Toronto. Leftist thinking infects all of government, including the federal level. In the US, the USDA recently had a diversity training session where they got employees pounding desks and chanting "the founding fathers were illegal aliens".

RkBall said...

Thucy. Indeed.

Anon1152 said...

My head hasn't exploded.

I also have no fear that out society won't survive if we allow illegal immigrants access to city services while they are here. (The city can't deport people, last time I checked).

RkBall said...

" while they are here"

You think they are "just visiting"?!

Anon1152 said...

They may be refugees.

It takes a lot for someone to leave home. I admire people who are willing to drop almost anything and travel across the world in search of a better life.

That's how N. America was colonized (to disastrous effect, for the original inhabitants of the land).

RkBall said...

"in search of a better life."

When they do it illegally rather than through lawful channels?

Anon1152 said...

It's illegal because we say it's illegal. My ancestors didn't ask the original inhabitants of Canada for permission to come here. And in my ideal world, everyone would be able to come and go as they please. (Across borders, that is. I wouldn't expect to be able to come and go in and out of someone else's apartment as I pleased. But I digress).

To really know why people come here illegally... we'd probably need to ask them.

RkBall said...

"My ancestors didn't ask the original inhabitants of Canada for permission to come here."

Nor did the successive waves of aboriginals ask permission of the first wave.

Anon1152 said...

"Nor did the successive waves of aboriginals ask permission of the first wave."

Very true. As far as I know.

Which means... that current "illegal immigrants" are following the long (and proud?) tradition of Aboriginals and European settlers.

RkBall said...

Since that time a nation-state has been established, property rights and the rule of law. The result has been an explosive increase in wealth and health and quality of life. Also, a vast, vast welfare entitlement state that can only handle so many "takers". I doubt that many aboriginals really want to give up modern conveniences and healthcare and cell phones and iPads and TV and central heating and indoor plumbing etc. etc. etc. etc.

I'm actually in a bit of a brouhaha right now over all this in some graduate studies I am doing. As far as I know, I'm the sole conservative! I was not raised to denigrate the West, or despise colonialism, as I understand Canadian students now are. Can you recommend a textbook that stands out in your mind? On my part, I downloaded Nial Ferguson's The West and The Rest for what I assume will be a conservative view.

I do want to try to understand both sides of the issue and am sympathetic to those who want a better life.

Anon1152 said...

Yes. Times have changed. Political institutions have changed. And I'm all for the state structure, rule of law, property rights, etc. Very few people would want to go back to life 500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or even (in spite of Jesus of Nazareth being there) 2000 years ago.

I think though that we should treat individuals we encounter with a certain amount of empathy and compassion. Even if (perhaps especially if) they don't "fit" within the system that we've constructed.


I'd like to know more about your graduate studies. I can't, at the moment, think of any good book in favour of Western Civilization. I haven't read the Niall Ferguson book you mention (Though I did read his "The Ascent of Money" a while ago).

In my position I study people like Thomas Hobbes, John Locke, and Immanuel Kant. I think their texts are a tribute to Western Civilization.

I have not been raised to denigrate the west. Nor do I wish to denigrate the west.

Colonialism... that's a different story.

I love the West, warts and all.

Well. colonialism might count as more of a serious birth defect than a wart.


I'm still having trouble thinking of a good book textbook that stands out in my mind. I wish I could remember one of the textbooks that I used in my OAC History Class (on Modern Western Civilization). There were two books. One was just excerpts from "great books".

Out of Curiosity: Have you ever read anything by Umberto Eco? My favourite fiction book is Foucalt's Pendulum, by Umberto Eco. I read it at the same time I was taking that history course. And I thought (at the time, while reading Eco) that it would be a good idea for me to get a PhD. I'm still trying to get one.

Incidentally, the book Foucault's Pendulum was given to my by a Catholic Priest. I had asked him a number of questions about... stuff... and he thought I might find the book interesting. I did.

RkBall said...

"I think though that we should treat individuals we encounter with a certain amount of empathy and compassion. Even if (perhaps especially if) they don't "fit" within the system that we've constructed."

I agree, but, if they arrive and apply for welfare they are fitting in the system we've constructed perfectly!

RkBall said...

"I'd like to know more about your graduate studies."

I'm in a Doctor of Ministry program. Recently we had a three-day session by a very likable native speaker who spent most of the time, ahem, critiquing the West. I wrote a somewhat polemical "rebuttal" and the reviews so far are not favorable! I found it ironic that he used Western history, only available because a) we are a written rather than oral culture, b) we developed the historical method, and c) we invented, ahem, the printing press not to mention the internet, to critique the West.

But, a very likeable fellow I would probably enjoy hanging out with (I missed the live sessions because I was very sick upon my return from Africa and was in the process of being "saved" by Western healthcare. I'm sure that coloured my commentary!

RkBall said...

"Umberto Eco"

Never read. Thanks for the lead. Will investimagate.

Anon1152 said...

Interesting. Will your polemical rebuttal be available online at any point in the near future? I'd love to read it.

RkBall said...

Hmmm. Let me think about that. I might be able to post an abridged version.

The Umberto Eco book you recommended looks very interesting.

RkBall said...

Anon1152: This book is on my radar

ENVY: A Theory of Social Behaviour
Helmut Schoeck

Ain't intellectual investigation grand?!

Anon1152 said...

I'll try to take a look at it next time I'm at the library.

"... nothing intellectually compelling or challenging.. bald assertions coupled to superstition... woefully pathetic"